otipoju:

If God gave David the wives of Saul his master after his death. And then was angry with David for taking Uriah's wife and killing him...you should be able to simply deduce that Polygamy is not a sin against God. Coveting and taking your Neighbour's wife is the sin.

Sorry, you dodged the question. I did not ask about what David did with Saul's wives but asked about "gave him wives".

And you people insist on "gave him wives" meaning anybody's wife whether Saul o or Abner o or jonathan o etc and not "gave David the wives of Saul which is what you are changing it into.

Because my own deduction tells me that God cannot give any married person another person's wife because it is evil and it breaks His Commandment as shown in Verse 9

"wherefore hast thou despised The Commandment of The Lord, to do evil in His Sight?"

Then see the charges that fiollowed

Charge 1 "killed Uriah with the sword"
Charge 2 "and hast taken his wife to be thy wife (polygamy for David was already married to Micah
Charge 3 "Slayed Uriah with the sword of the children Ammon".

Charge 2 is undisputably a charge against polygamy.

Go check the judgement for David's sin. It was devastating.

otipoju:

My claim ab initio is that Polygamy is not a sin against God and monogamy is not the standard for righteousness...

I know that is why we are in dispute starting from your basis of "gave him wives" so your off point surplusage in establishing your case is in vain. Sorry.

otipoju:

Please don't use Google answers for me. You as a lawyer knows the value of credible sources to back claims. I studied Jewish religious law as so many thousands of theologians. It does not make us lawyers.

Everyone knows Google is acceptable hence the popular caption "Google it". And in the event they are in error, we are all sure you will point it out.

And besides, we do not know what you sudied or did not study, so Google is a fair referee between us.

And presently you do not contest that the information on Paul is untrue, so it is not a problem.

otipoju:

I mentioned that I was trained in religious studies just so you don't give flippant answers to me. It was you that was trying to impress with your law degree saying you seperate truths from lies....as if that is what lawyers really do.

That a lawyer means that you are trained in logical reasoning. If that is the case you ought to know that it is impossible to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Polygamy is a sin against God from the Christian scriptures.

Your heart has already confessed the Truth and you cannot take it back. You said it because you wanted to intimidate me and tell me that you are the bible expert and authority and therefore i have no right to query your opinions. And that pride and arrogance made you to repeat it again up here in your post, even though it was not relevant and fallacious but i ignored them and faced the issue of contention.

So try to stay focused.

And proof beyond reasonable doubt is for criminal case in proving the guilt of a person accused of a crime and this is not a criminal case but a civil one, and that is judged on the prepoderance of evidence and a balance of probability, which you have already lost by your dodging of the question i asked you.

Entusky:
E get wan certain prophet wey marry a 5 year old pikin con knack her wen she dey 9 year old as if dat wan no do am hin con marry d wife of hin adopted son come tell hin followers say hin GOD revoked d adoption naim mek hin marry d woman

😅

Guy take am easy nah. Haba

GanagiBitrus:
Judaism permits Polygamy.
Christianity forbids Polygamy.

Many people don't know that old testament is Judaism.

Goodlady:
This clergy is justifying polygamy.
At the end, it's not always a good practice. Reasons boku!

Abraham was a prophet, he married one wife

Moses was a prophet, he married one wife.

Them many

Beautifulday:


Abraham was a prophet, he married one wife

Moses was a prophet, he married one wife.

Them many

Polygamy is a recipe for many problems.
Mistake of Abraham with Haggai bred janjaweêds the whole world is nursing till today.

Goodlady:

Polygamy is a recipe for many problems.
Mistake of Abraham with Haggai bred janjaweêds the whole world is nursing till today.

Haggai wasn't Abraham's wife. He never took her as wife.

Moses had only one wife.

Both were prophets. The first and biggest prophets in the Bible.

Beautifulday:

Many people don't know that old testament is Judaism.

Old testament is not Judaism.

Judaism is Judah-ism which the bible shows is a religion of idols worshipping and abomination, which is why God kept complaining that they never keep His Commandments!

Malachi 2:11-17 KJV
Judah hath dealt treacherously, and an abomination is committed in Israel and in Jerusalem; for Judah hath profaned the holiness of the LORD which he loved and had married the daughter of a strange god.

Amos 2:4
Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they have despised the law of the LORD, and have not kept his commandments, and their lies caused them to err, after the which their fathers have walked:

Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes;

StillDtruth:


Sorry, you dodged the question. I did not ask about what David did with Saul's wives but asked about "gave him wives".

And you people insist on "gave him wives" meaning anybody's wife whether Saul o or Abner o or jonathan o etc and not "gave David the wives of Saul which is what you are changing it into.

Because my own deduction tells me that God cannot give any married person another person's wife because it is evil and it breaks His Commandment as shown in Verse 9

"wherefore hast thou despised The Commandment of The Lord, to do evil in His Sight?"

Then see the charges that fiollowed

Charge 1 "killed Uriah with the sword"
Charge 2 "and hast taken his wife to be thy wife (polygamy for David was already married to Micah
Charge 3 "Slayed Uriah with the sword of the children Ammon".

Charge 2 is undisputably a charge against polygamy.

Go check the judgement for David's sin. It was devastating.



I know that is why we are in dispute starting from your basis of "gave him wives" so your off point surplusage in establishing your case is in vain. Sorry.



Everyone knows Google is acceptable hence the popular caption "Google it". And in the event they are in error, we are all sure you will point it out.

And besides, we do not know what you sudied or did not study, so Google is a fair referee between us.

And presently you do not contest that the information on Paul is untrue, so it is not a problem.



Your heart has already confessed the Truth and you cannot take it back. You said it because you wanted to intimidate me and tell me that you are the bible expert and authority and therefore i have no right to query your opinions. And that pride and arrogance made you to repeat it again up here in your post, even though it was not relevant and fallacious but i ignored them and faced the issue of contention.

So try to stay focused.

And proof beyond reasonable doubt is for criminal case in proving the guilt of a person accused of a crime and this is not a criminal case but a civil one, and that is judged on the prepoderance of evidence and a balance of probability, which you have already lost by your dodging of the question i asked you.

Too many English. No substance. Let me leave you to you.

Beautifulday:


Haggai wasn't Abraham's wife. He never took her as wife.

Moses had only one wife.

Both were prophets. The first and biggest prophets in the Bible.

Whatever. Ha ing one wife is key. And having children with one wife is wisdom. To avoid another Haggai breading future janjaweêds or to avoid family drama of polygamous homes
.

siant:
What reason? And the verse where the reason stata?

I finally found an old discussion of this sort and decided to go with the response there instead.

sholay2011:
■ What are you saying?
Acts 11:27-28: ²⁷ And in these days prophets came from Jerusalem to Antioch. ²⁸ Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Acts 21:10-11: ¹⁰ And as we stayed many days, a certain prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. ¹¹ When he had come to us, he took Paul’s belt, bound his own hands and feet, and said, “Thus says the Holy Spirit, ‘So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man who owns this belt, and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’ ”
Agabus was a prophet.
The four daughters of Philip for example, had the gift of prophecy.

What most people who claim to believe don't realize is that God's original plan had been to speak directly to the people of Israel Himself. But the people, too afraid, demanded that Moses speak to them on behalf of God instead.

18 During all this time, the people in the valley heard the thundering and saw the lightning on the mountain. They saw smoke rising from the mountain and heard the sound of the trumpet. They were afraid and shook with fear. They stood away from the mountain and watched.
19 Then the people said to Moses, “If you want to speak to us, then we will listen. But please don’t let God speak to us. If this happens, we will die.”
20 Then Moses said to them, “Don’t be afraid! God has come to test you. He wants you to respect him so that you will not sin.”
21 The people stood far away from the mountain while Moses went to the dark cloud where God was.
22 Then the Lord told Moses to say this to the Israelites: “You people have seen that I talked with you from heaven. - Exodus 20 vs 18 - 22

It is for this reason that God of Israel, YHWH, set up His system of Prophets.

1. The God of Israel, YHWH, is the one who instituted the Prophet's system as part of His Old Law of Moses

The Lord heard this.
3 (Moses was a very humble man. He was more humble than any other man on earth.)
4 So suddenly, the Lord came and spoke to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam. He said, “You three, come to the Meeting Tent, now!”
So Moses, Aaron, and Miriam went to the Tent.
5 The Lord came down in the tall cloud and stood at the entrance to the Tent. He called out, “Aaron and Miriam!” They went to him.
6 God said, “Listen to me! You will have prophets. I, the Lord, will let them learn about me through visions. I will speak to them in dreams. - Numbers 12 vs 1 -6

2. The same God of Israel announced through Daniel that before the end of Last Days — the conclusion of His Judgment against the Nation of Israel(and Judah), He would bring to an end the time of the Prophets and visions.

24 “God has allowed 70 weeks for your people and your holy city, Daniel. The 70 weeks are ordered for these reasons: to stop doing bad things, to stop sinning, to make people pure, to bring the goodness that continues forever, to put a seal on visions and prophets , and to dedicate a very holy place. - Daniel 9 vs 24

3. The same God of Israel, YHWH, announced through the prophet Joel that before the end of the Last Days, He would pour out His Spirit on all young men and women in the land of Zion.

28 “After this, I will pour out my Spirit on all kinds of people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will have dreams, and your young men will see visions.
29 In those days I will pour out my Spirit even on servants, both men and women.
30 I will work wonders in the sky and on the earth. There will be blood, fire, and thick smoke.
31 The sun will be changed into darkness, and the moon will be as red as blood. Then the great and fearful day of the Lord will come!
32 And everyone who trusts in the Lord will be saved. There will be survivors on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, just as the Lord said. Yes, those left alive will be the ones the Lord has called. - Joel 2 vs 28 - 32

Jesus Christ was the last prophet sent by God to the people of Israel as this is noted both in the parable spoken by Jesus Christ Himself. John the Baptist was the last of the Old Covenant prophets sent by the God of Israel. Jesus Christ confirmed this Himself. All the other prophets that came after those two are a result of God pouring out His Spirit on all of the daughters and sons of Zion in the land during the same generation that the disciples lived in. This all took place about 1900 years ago.

---

Paul was aware of this. He knew that the prophets in the land during the last days were not, in fact, prophets like the old — sent by God to the people of Israel. The "Prophets" in the land at the time were not messengers of God like the Old Prophets. They were not holy and righteous men like the Old Prophets that God had previously sent to His people in His Name; these "prophets" at the time were sinners many of whom were due to be cursed by God for their refusal to obey His Law. God didn't send them to any man or woman in the land of Israel. Neither were they to deliver messages to anyone using His name. The "Prophets" in the land at the time were rather a result of God opening up the fountain of communication so He could directly communicate with everyone in the land before His final judgment was pronounced upon them. It is for that reason that Paul refused to heed their warnings, and chose instead to do that which was before Him.

omobolarinwa1:


Ya sure absolutely that's why you should always mind what you will talking as if you don't ave sense. All this hadith your eyye pastor sharing to you were wrote 300yrs after the demise of the beloved prophet. So if younlike continue throwing tantrum to the prophet of God. You will find your utter words in your left book in the grave and on judgement day... seek refuge under the tent of your One God before its late and ask forgiveness.

Shut up your Gutter mouth....

Go and learn how to spell correctly before you come online and defend a Pedophilic Prophet that you see as your god...

The Prophet Mohammed was nothing more than a Pedophilic Prophet...

Accept this fact here on earth or in your grave

☠️💀 💀☠️

JuanDeDios:



"Isaac heard from God."
As does my niece. Her dreams always come to pass.

"i didn't refer to him as a prophet but since Oshoffa's son thinks he is a prophet because his father was referred to as one, Isaac gets a slot, too."

I think Oshoffa Jnr was named a prophet by the church though.

"All the scriptures serve as examples, including the patriarch Isaac, not only prophets."
So what do you do/preach on the matter of marriage? Accept the example of Isaac and other patriarchs/prophets who married one wife and reject that of Jacob and others who married more than one? Well, I think that's one way to go about things. It only becomes a problem when you try to argue that only one example is good enough for Christians while the other is bad.

You passed Abraham as a prophet because he "heard from God REGULARLY and was shown future events." i pass him off as a prophet because God called him a prophet. Isaac also "heard from God REGULARLY and was shown future events." Nothing wrong with your niece hearing from God or is there? You seem like you're trying to trivialize it here.
As to what i do in marriage, i follow the new testament examples. TWO become ONE is also clear enough for me. And when a thread says that NO prophet married only one wife in the Bible, to make room for fleshly desires, i say satan is a liar and the father of liars.

otipoju:


Too many English. No substance. Let me leave you to you.

Na lie! You are just running away because you already know you cannot counter and that are lying against God and His Word!

StillDtruth:


Na lie! You are just running away because you already know you cannot counter and that are lying against God and His Word!

You are not saying any thing worthy.

Wether deliberately or you can't understand it. You are not debating the salient points.

The fact is that in matters such as this context is extremely important. The letters of Paul, the responses of Jesus and the doings of the patriarchs all had a socio cultural background to them that can't be ignored.

For instance take the issue of eating of unclean animals. Peter was teaching that they not be eaten...until God taught him otherwise.

Paul's letters were a response to events in the church at that time. They were not written in isolation and were clearly addressed to certain groups of individuals in response to certain events that were ongoing.

You are ignoring context and unable to see the whole picture and not interested in having a balanced discussion.

Therefore it's a waste of time.

Once again. Polygamy is not a sin against God...because he himself said he gave David wives and would have given him more if he asked. If it was a sin, it would mean that God himself sinned against himself.

Not one scripture passage did God condemn anyone for marrying more than one wife. And their many instances were polygamous men were in very loving relationships with him.

Jesus himself said marriage ends here on earth...for like the angels who do not marry that is how we will be in heaven.



Marriage is not at the core of man's relationship with God. It is a human activity for multiplying the species and providi h support for the offspring and parents during their time here on earth.

otipoju:


You are not saying any thing worthy

You are lying

I have already said what i should say and the thread shows that you could not answer my questions nor give any valid counter, so right now you are lying, yet you call yourself a christian.

Image123:


You passed Abraham as a prophet because he "heard from God REGULARLY and was shown future events." i pass him off as a prophet because God called him a prophet. Isaac also "heard from God REGULARLY and was shown future events." Nothing wrong with your niece hearing from God or is there? You seem like you're trying to trivialize it here.
As to what i do in marriage, i follow the new testament examples. TWO become ONE is also clear enough for me. And when a thread says that NO prophet married only one wife in the Bible, to make room for fleshly desires, i say satan is a liar and the father of liars.

No, not trivializing it. Just pointing out that “hearing from God”, on its own, doesn’t quality one as a prophet (ref: Cain, Manoah, Isaac, my niece, etc.)

It was the pattern to Abraham’s hearing from God, the depth of what he heard and the implications for the entire world that makes me think it’s not an error for you to call him a prophet. You say God called him a prophet, well, I don’t seem to recall the verse where God did that. But if God calling someone a prophet is your criterion, that’d certainly lose Isaac the slot you tried to award him.

Isaac DID NOT hear from God REGULARLY while being shown future events–certainly not in a manner close to his father. His wife heard more than him sef and should get a slot before him if we’re using this criterion.

New Testament example. Well, that’s a sound position to adopt. Some Christians just happen to find OT examples legit since Jesus did not nullify them and even the apostles did not. After all, some churches (e.g. Celestial) choose to be very heavy on the OT. And I really don’t think Oshoffa Jnr’s exaggeration (“no prophet”) nullified his point or made him a liar.

JuanDeDios:

No, not trivializing it. Just pointing out that “hearing from God”, on its own, doesn’t quality one as a prophet (ref: Cain, Manoah, Isaac, my niece, etc.)

It was the pattern to Abraham’s hearing from God, the depth of what he heard and the implications for the entire world that makes me think it’s not an error for you to call him a prophet. You say God called him a prophet, well, I don’t seem to recall the verse where God did that. But if God calling someone a prophet is your criterion, that’d certainly lose Isaac the slot you tried to award him.

Isaac DID NOT hear from God REGULARLY while being shown future events–certainly not in a manner close to his father. His wife heard more than him sef and should get a slot before him if we’re using this criterion.

New Testament example. Well, that’s a sound position to adopt. Some Christians just happen to find OT examples legit since Jesus did not nullify them and even the apostles did not. After all, some churches (e.g. Celestial) choose to be very heavy on the OT. And I really don’t think Oshoffa Jnr’s exaggeration (“no prophet”) nullified his point or made him a liar.

Genesis 20v7 specifically refers to Abraham as a prophet. That's why i called him one.
In your defence of Abraham as a prophet, your point was that, "Abraham, while not a classic, crusading prophet like Moses, Elijah or Isaiah, heard from God REGULARLY and was shown future events. So if we abandon a strict construction and take on an expanded definition, Abraham was a prophet."
Though i don't know your definition of regularly, i don't know how many times the children of Philip heard from God to be called prophetesses but i know that they prophesied. As for Isaac, he was with his father at different points of his life, like God trusted Abraham to do. We cannot forget their JOINT experience with God on Mount Moriah. We cannot leave out Isaac meditating in the field, like recorded in Genesis 24v63. Genesis 26v2 is also very direct about Isaac hearing from God. i am not sure that he could have accomplished the great exploits we read about without hearing from God. We also saw the clear prophecies he made towards Jacob's life in chapter 27, which were not of his will or reversible by him.
All the same, i have not called him a prophet. i have only stated that he takes that slot as a qualified patriarch and before Oshoffa's son. We cannot only look at examples of prophets and discard the example of their own patriarch, Isaac. That's very selective and biased. Marriage was not made for prophets alone, why do we have to make a doctrine or teaching of marriage limiting it to only prophets? How many prophets' lives or wives do we know? How many wives did prophet Daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, or Ezekiel have? These are the people that we call major prophets, right? How many wives did Elijah and Elisha, Samuel and Jonah have? The point is that the Oshoffa man had no real Bible based point.

Kobojunkie:
I finally found an old discussion of this sort and decided to go with the response there instead.
What most people who claim to believe don't realize is that God's original plan had been to speak directly to the people of Israel Himself. But the people, too afraid, demanded that Moses speak to them on behalf of God instead.
It is for this reason that God of Israel, YHWH, set up His system of Prophets.

1. The God of Israel, YHWH, is the one who instituted the Prophet's system as part of His Old Law of Moses

2. The same God of Israel announced through Daniel that before the end of Last Days — the conclusion of His Judgment against the Nation of Israel(and Judah), He would bring to an end the time of the Prophets and visions.

3. The same God of Israel, YHWH, announced through the prophet Joel that before the end of the Last Days, He would pour out His Spirit on all young men and women in the land of Zion.

Jesus Christ was the last prophet sent by God to the people of Israel as this is noted both in the parable spoken by Jesus Christ Himself. John the Baptist was the last of the Old Covenant prophets sent by the God of Israel. Jesus Christ confirmed this Himself. All the other prophets that came after those two are a result of God pouring out His Spirit on all of the daughters and sons of Zion in the land during the same generation that the disciples lived in. This all took place about 1900 years ago.

---

Paul was aware of this. He knew that the prophets in the land during the last days were not, in fact, prophets like the old — sent by God to the people of Israel. The "Prophets" in the land at the time were not messengers of God like the Old Prophets. They were not holy and righteous men like the Old Prophets that God had previously sent to His people in His Name; these "prophets" at the time were sinners many of whom were due to be cursed by God for their refusal to obey His Law. God didn't send them to any man or woman in the land of Israel. Neither were they to deliver messages to anyone using His name. The "Prophets" in the land at the time were rather a result of God opening up the fountain of communication so He could directly communicate with everyone in the land before His final judgment was pronounced upon them. It is for that reason that Paul refused to heed their warnings, and chose instead to do that which was before Him.

It was never the God's plan to speak directly with all the people of Israel. He spoke through the certain people, called prophets. Even, Noah, the first man who the Bible refered to as a prophet had to receive messages from God and deliver them to the people of his time. If it was intention of God to speak directly with them, He would have easily done that instead of sending Noah to them.
God came down on mountain Sinai in the cloud and darkness with great thunder to make the Israelites fear Him and believe Moses His servant. Not that He wanted to speak directly with them. That was why He warned them not to come near the mountain. And He called Moses alone to come over into the darkness.
' And Moses said unto the people, fear not, for God is come to prove you and His fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not'. Exodus 20:20
Stop lying.

Daniel prophesied the end of the old order and the beginning of new order, not about putting an end to prophecies and vision. You shot yourself in the leg. If there would be an end to vision and prophecy, why did Joel said ' your young will see vision, your old will dream? Why did the same God of the spirit of the prophets gave vision to John to warn the 7 churches in Asia minor?

There's no where that the Bible says the prophets of old were holy and more righteous than the new testament prophets. You claim there were no more prophets after Christ, you are still saying the new testament prophets were sinners whom God cursed. Perhaps you should give an example.
None among all the prophets of old was holy. They were all sinners like every other men. Moses was a murderer and adulterer who married a strange woman contrary to the law that God gave the Israelites through him, Samuel was never holy, Elijah was a murderer, so also Elisha. Isaiah confessed himself he was a sinner. Nobody can be pure in the face of God, except through the precious blood of Jesus. Only the righteousness of Christ can make anyone a righteous before God. It is not by your struggles and perfection. The scriptures says, ' He knew no sin, but was made a sin for us, so that by Him, we might become righteousness of God.'


The nation of Israel symbolizes the church. The whole old testament is the shadow of the new testament. Old testament is the type, while the new testament is antitype. God is no longer dealing with the nation of Israel, He is dealing with the church. There have been prophets in the church since the beginning of the church on the day of pentecost, as they were used to be in Israel in the old order.
It is either ignorance or satanic for any one to be equating old prophets with Christ. Such a person is denying His Lordship. Jesus is greater than Abraham, He is greater than Moses and any of the prophets of old. He is greater than the law and the temple. He is the King of kings and the Lord of lords. The beginning and the end.
Jehovah witness is not much different from Islam, even worst.

siant:
■ It was never the God's plan to speak directly with all the people of Israel. He spoke through the certain people, called prophets. Even, Noah, the first man who the Bible refered to as a prophet had to receive messages from God and deliver them to the people of his time. If it was intention of God to speak directly with them, He would have easily done that instead of sending Noah to them.
God came down on mountain Sinai in the cloud and darkness with great thunder to make the Israelites fear Him and believe Moses His servant. Not that He wanted to speak directly with them. That was why He warned them not to come near the mountain. And He called Moses alone to come over into the darkness.
' And Moses said unto the people, fear not, for God is come to prove you and His fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not'. Exodus 20:20Stop lying.
■ Daniel prophesied the end of the old order and the beginning of new order, not about putting an end to prophecies and vision. You shot yourself in the leg. If there would be an end to vision and prophecy, why did Joel said ' your young will see vision, your old will dream? Why did the same God of the spirit of the prophets gave vision to John to warn the 7 churches in Asia minor?
■ There's no where that the Bible says the prophets of old were holy and more righteous than the new testament prophets. You claim there were more prophet after Christ, you are still saying the new testament prophets were sinners whom God cursed. Perhaps you should give an example.
■ None among all the prophets of old was holy. They were all sinners like every other men. Moses was a murderer and adulterer who married a strange woman contrary to the law that God gave the Israelites through himself, Samuel was never holy, Elijah was a murderer, so also Elisha. Isaiah confessed himself he was a sinner. No body can be pure in the face of God, except through the precious blood of Jesus. Only the righteousness of Christ can make anyone a righteous before God. It is not by your struggles and perfection. The scriptures says, ' He knew no sin, but was made a sin for us, so that by Him, we might become righteousness of God.'

1. What you are saying is that God lied to the people of Israel to cun them to accept Moses as His servant. He never intended to speak directly to them as He said in Exodus 19.

7 So Moses climbed down the mountain and called the elders of the people together. Moses told the elders everything the Lord had commanded him to tell them.
8 All the people spoke at the same time and said, “We will obey everything the Lord says.” Then Moses went back up the mountain and told the Lord that the people would obey him.
9 Then the Lord said to Moses, “I will come to you in the thick cloud. I will speak to you. All the people will hear me talking to you. I will do this so that they will always believe what you tell them.” - Exodus 19 vs 7 - 9

His plan all along was to deceive the people into allowing Moses to be their guide in the desert?

2. You said Daniel prophesied regarding the end of the Old and the beginning of the New. Well, the same end that Daniel had a vision regarding is the very same end that Joel equally wrote of when he announced that God would pour out His Spirit on all the young men and women in the land of Judah(Zion included). I mean there was only one Last Day/Endtime for the Nation of Judah(Zion) — the end of the old order which ushered in the beginning of the new order. And it was during those very same Last Days of God's Judgement against the Nation of Israel(and Judah) in the Land of Canaan under His Old Law of Moses that John, the Revelator, one of the people of Israel in the Land of Judah at the time, wrote his book of Revelation.

3. Now you are trying to insert words into my mouth. First of all, there is no such thing as more Holy and more righteous. What I instead said is that the Prophets of Old were holy and righteous men. Second, there are no New Testament Prophets given that Jesus Christ, the New Testament, never included prophets as part of His Will and Law in the Kingdom of God. Rather, the prophets written in the book of Acts were men and women who resulted from God's Old Testament declaration that He would pour out His Spirit on all in the land during the Last Days.

4. WOW!!

I see now where the bulk of the problem probably comes from so, I think it is best I exit the conversation at this point in time. It has been nice!

Kobojunkie:
1. What you are saying is that God lied to the people of Israel to cun them to accept Moses as His servant. He never intended to speak directly to them as He said in Exodus 19.
His plan all along was to deceive the people into allowing Moses to be their guide in the desert?

2. You said Daniel prophesied regarding the end of the Old and the beginning of the New. Well, the same end that Daniel had a vision regarding is the very same end that Joel equally wrote of when he announced that God would pour out His Spirit on all the young men and women in the land of Judah(Zion included). I mean there was only one Last Day/Endtime for the Nation of Judah(Zion) — the end of the old order which ushered in the beginning of the new order. And it was during those very same Last Days of God's Judgement against the Nation of Israel(and Judah) in the Land of Canaan under His Old Law of Moses that John, the Revelator, one of the people of Israel in the Land of Judah at the time, wrote his book of Revelation.

3. Now you are trying to insert words into my mouth. First of all, there is no such thing as more Holy and more righteous. What I instead said is that the Prophets of Old were holy and righteous men. Second, there are no New Testament Prophets given that Jesus Christ, the New Testament, never included prophets as part of His Will and Law in the Kingdom of God. Rather, the prophets written in the book of Acts were men and women who resulted from God's Old Testament declaration that He would pour out His Spirit on all in the land during the Last Days.

4. WOW!!

I see now where the bulk of the problem probably comes from so, I think it is best I exit the conversation at this point in time. It has been nice!

Of course, you need to exit or go back to your spiritual leader/ mentor to give you another lie. Because you guys are liar!

siant:
Of course, you need to exit or go back to your spiritual leader/ mentor to give you another lie. Because you guys are liar!

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My only Teacher is Jesus Christ Himself and according to Him, all of the Prophets were Holy and RIghteous men at the time that God chose them. And He says God was not lying to the people of Israel when He told them that He wished for them to hear Him speak to Moses. Jesus Christ says that all that is revealed of God in Scripture by His Prophets and Jesus Christ are Truths. But since your own belief leads you to believe otherwise, then clearly, we could not be serving or even talking here of the very same God, can we then?

I shouldn't waste my time as I am interested in that which is right in front of me rather than all of these meaningless engagements. That is my reason for quitting at this point.

Kobojunkie:
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My only Teacher is Jesus Christ Himself and according to Him, all of the Prophets were Holy and RIghteous men at the time that God chose them. And He says God was not lying to the people of Israel when He told them that He wished for them to hear Him speak to Moses. Jesus Christ says that all that is revealed of God in Scripture by His Prophets and Jesus Christ are Truths. But since your own belief leads you to believe otherwise, then clearly, we could not be serving or even talking here of the very same God, can we then?

I shouldn't waste my time as I am interested in that which is right in front of me rather than all of these meaningless engagements. That is my reason for quitting at this point.

No, you have a teacher who is always lie ant misleading you

siant:
No, you have a teacher who is always lie ant misleading you

Like I said, 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My only Teacher is Jesus Christ Himself and according to Him, all of the Prophets were Holy and RIghteous men at the time that God chose them. And He says God was not lying to the people of Israel when He told them that He wished for them to hear Him speak to Moses. Jesus Christ says that all that is revealed of God in Scripture by His Prophets and Jesus Christ are Truths. But since your own belief leads you to believe otherwise, then clearly, we could not be serving or even talking here of the very same God, can we then?

I shouldn't waste my time as I am interested in that which is right in front of me rather than all of these meaningless engagements. That is my reason for quitting at this point.

Kobojunkie:
Like I said, 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My only Teacher is Jesus Christ Himself and according to Him, all of the Prophets were Holy and RIghteous men at the time that God chose them. And He says God was not lying to the people of Israel when He told them that He wished for them to hear Him speak to Moses. Jesus Christ says that all that is revealed of God in Scripture by His Prophets and Jesus Christ are Truths. But since your own belief leads you to believe otherwise, then clearly, we could not be serving or even talking here of the very same God, can we then?

I shouldn't waste my time as I am interested in that which is right in front of me rather than all of these meaningless engagements. That is my reason for quitting at this point.

Jehovah witness is never a Christian organization

siant:
Jehovah witness is never a Christian organization

Get over yourself already!

I am not even a Christian and I don't follow your religion or any for that matter. From where I sit, you are more closely aligned with the Jehovah's Witnesses who like you do not believe in the God of Israel and His Son Jesus Christ even though by mouth you all claim to.

According to Jesus Christ, the Father sent His prophets and the tenants beat them and did all sorts of things to them. Then lastly, the Father is said to have sent His own Son, and we know the tenants killed him off. So why would the Father send more prophets after that? You think the Father is some sort of fool or slowpoke since you don't believe any of what Jesus Christ said.

Image123:


Genesis 20v7 specifically refers to Abraham as a prophet. That's why i called him one.
In your defence of Abraham as a prophet, your point was that, "Abraham, while not a classic, crusading prophet like Moses, Elijah or Isaiah, heard from God REGULARLY and was shown future events. So if we abandon a strict construction and take on an expanded definition, Abraham was a prophet."
Though i don't know your definition of regularly, i don't know how many times the children of Philip heard from God to be called prophetesses but i know that they prophesied. As for Isaac, he was with his father at different points of his life, like God trusted Abraham to do. We cannot forget their JOINT experience with God on Mount Moriah. We cannot leave out Isaac meditating in the field, like recorded in Genesis 24v63. Genesis 26v2 is also very direct about Isaac hearing from God. i am not sure that he could have accomplished the great exploits we read about without hearing from God. We also saw the clear prophecies he made towards Jacob's life in chapter 27, which were not of his will or reversible by him.
All the same, i have not called him a prophet. i have only stated that he takes that slot as a qualified patriarch and before Oshoffa's son. We cannot only look at examples of prophets and discard the example of their own patriarch, Isaac. That's very selective and biased. Marriage was not made for prophets alone, why do we have to make a doctrine or teaching of marriage limiting it to only prophets? How many prophets' lives or wives do we know? How many wives did prophet Daniel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, or Ezekiel have? These are the people that we call major prophets, right? How many wives did Elijah and Elisha, Samuel and Jonah have? The point is that the Oshoffa man had no real Bible based point.

My niece dreams fairly regularly, yet I don’t consider her a prophet, at least, not in the sense we’re talking about. So, obviously my statement was not meant to be a comprehensive definition. Thing with the prophets in the Bible is (1) there was a PATTERN of God speaking through them, and (2) They had a message for the world, or at least, for the community. If you ask me to define a prophet in light of the Bible, I’d say someone who brings a message from God for the world. Which is why I considered Abraham one, even before you remind me of the scripture where God called him one. Like Isaac, my niece receives messages about people in our family, not messages for the world or the community. Which is why I don’t consider her a prophet. Maybe the children of Philip had prophecies about salvation for the world, hence prophets in the sense we’re talking about. Or maybe they were simply called prophets the way Abraham was and the way the Cele church has called Oshoffa jnr one?

Like you said, there were men of God we don’t know their marital status and we should not make assumptions (like Daniel); some were monogamous (Job, Peter, etc.), and some were (likely) celibate (Elijah, Paul, etc.). However, while you have made good points about the great prophets (not that those points were disputed), you’re nitpicking Oshoffa and using his words against him. Everyone knows many men of God of old (including prophets and non-prophets) exercised the CHOICE to be polygamous and that this fact did not detract from their standing with God or diminish them in the eyes of their followers. This is the point. I doubt Oshoffa or anyone would be crazy enough to hold this up as a recommendation. No, it's just a fact - that for Bible believers, the choice of polygamy is as valid as that of monogamy. Denying or obfuscating it is a waste of time, because the Bible is there. Of course, things change a bit when we move into the New Testament where monogamy is clearly recommended for church leaders. Meaning that any church that reads the NT literally will not elevate you to deacon or pastor (or prophet!) if you have more than one wife.

Kobojunkie:
There are no prophets except Jesus Christ in the Kingdom of God. Jesus Christ is the last prophet anointed by YHWH and sent to the people of Israel.

Are you sure? What of St John (the Revelation man)? What of Oshoffa? What of TB Joshua?

JuanDeDios:

My niece dreams fairly regularly, yet I don’t consider her a prophet, at least, not in the sense we’re talking about. So, obviously my statement was not meant to be a comprehensive definition. Thing with the prophets in the Bible is (1) there was a PATTERN of God speaking through them, and (2) They had a message for the world, or at least, for the community. If you ask me to define a prophet in light of the Bible, I’d say someone who brings a message from God for the world. Which is why I considered Abraham one, even before you remind me of the scripture where God called him one. Like Isaac, my niece receives messages about people in our family, not messages for the world or the community. Which is why I don’t consider her a prophet. Maybe the children of Philip had prophecies about salvation for the world, hence prophets in the sense we’re talking about. Or maybe they were simply called prophets the way Abraham was and the way the Cele church has called Oshoffa jnr one?

Like you said, there were men of God we don’t know their marital status and we should not make assumptions (like Daniel); some were monogamous (Job, Peter, etc.), and some were (likely) celibate (Elijah, Paul, etc.). However, while you have made good points about the great prophets (not that those points were disputed), you’re nitpicking Oshoffa and using his words against him. Everyone knows many men of God of old (including prophets and non-prophets) exercised the CHOICE to be polygamous and that this fact did not detract from their standing with God or diminish them in the eyes of their followers. This is the point. I doubt Oshoffa or anyone would be crazy enough to hold this up as a recommendation. No, it's just a fact - that for Bible believers, the choice of polygamy is as valid as that of monogamy. Denying or obfuscating it is a waste of time, because the Bible is there. Of course, things change a bit when we move into the New Testament where monogamy is clearly recommended for church leaders. Meaning that any church that reads the NT literally will not elevate you to deacon or pastor (or prophet!) if you have more than one wife.

Seems you're trying to win an argument or something.
The thread is clear, it is strange that you accuse me of nitpicking instead. The whole point and title of the thread was what Oshoffa said.

“Can I tell you something… (sic)? You see, in that scripture, Paul was only advising. Tell me in the Bible, which prophet of God had only one wife? Do your research and tell me,”

https://punchng.com/no-prophet-married-only-one-wife-in-the-bible-says-oshoffas-son/
He spoke to Punch Newspapers, a very popular and widely read newspaper in Nigeria. Showing that he was clearly wrong, is not the definition of nit-picking. He was wrong, simple. the twisting and turning doesn't change the biblical fact.

JuanDeDios:
■ Are you sure? What of St John (the Revelation man)?
■ What of Oshoffa? What of TB Joshua?

For the case of John, I suggest you visit Joel 2 vs 28 - 31 for the answers you seek.

Look, Jesus Christ, Himself proclaimed that He is the last one sent by His Father, the God of Israel, and since He is an eternal being, it means He stands to this day as the last one sent by His Father, YHWH. Ask yourself this, did Jesus Christ and His Father get it wrong?

2. All those others you mentioned are fraudsters who have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ and the God of Israel if we are to believe what Jesus Christ said.

Image123:

Seems you're trying to win an argument or something.

Debatable.

But good debate overall so far. Have a great day.

GanagiBitrus:

The Religion practiced by Abraham, Isaac, Jacob & all through Old Testament was Judaism. Polygamy was allowed.

Christianity started in New Testament with all those that accepted Christ's teachings.
Majority of Jews never accepted Christianity, & continue to practice Judaism up to this day.

Did Christ preached against polygamy?

Yes sir, you have answered the question yourself. The Bible was supposed to be inspired by God, so why he would inspire two authors to write different things about the same people. If only we all can agree that the writers were simply doing their best with the information available to them and leave out the inspiration business. Also even if his genealogy was to be traced and I agree with you it should be through his mother, curiously Mary's name is missing in any of the two account. Surely people inspired by God should write what is TRUE and NOT what they think people want to hear.

The other problem is about the multiple versions that abound all because of thousands of different ancient manuscripts "no two of which completely agree with another" in the words of Bible scholars. I can give you an example

The verse which is the cornerstone of Trinity and the only one that bears a little semblance of the doctrine is 1 John5:7. You will only find that verse in the KJV, most modern versions have removed it completely because that text is NOT found in aicent manuscripts older than those on which the KJV was based. Check the link below.

https://www.nairaland.com/6986742/37-bibles-removed-trinity-verse

There are other verses which have been proven to be later day additions or those with dubious translations like the famous John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God" the last God in the word was God was a deliberate mistranslation of the original Greek word ton-theos

https://jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/new-testament-refutations-trinity-doctrine-part-21

Kobojunkie:
You have peaked my interest! Care if we take these on one at a time then? I am very much interested in dissecting every problem you have there to understand what aspects have led you to conclude that the book itself is volatile and contradictory when in fact it is merely a compendium of books each written by different authors at different points in time.

So, what do you say? Shall we create a different topic to dissect this?

2. About the Geneology of Jesus Christ, I don't believe there was in fact what you consider a fabrication. Remember that we are talking of a time when there were no fact-checking systems in place and no computers to catch errors. The writer of Matthew may have simply gotten his details from a source different from that which the writer of Luke had obtained his from. My guess is Joseph, long dead at the time the genealogy was written may not have been there to verify any of the claims obtained by the two sources. Also, when it comes to the matter of Jesus Christ's actual genealogy, it has to be traced from the line of his mother of course. Why? Because He was not born of an earthly father after all and the Law of Moses — by way of the benefit given to the daughters of Zelophedad— did allow for genealogy to be traced from the mother, even though Jewish tradition may have frowned greatly on it— I think it still does. But yeah, there is also the possibility that Mary and Joseph were related as you said.

Additionally, the line that included Solomon was not valid at all because Solomon was disqualified by the God of Israel from fathering the King forever. So, any line that included the mention of Solomon could not be it.